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  #1  
Old 09-07-2011, 09:35 AM
QuestForKnowledge QuestForKnowledge is offline
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Default Stumped! Possible electrical problem on 05 Pathfinder

Hi all,

I just joined today and this is my first post. Someone suggested this forum to me and indicated they've had great success on it in the past, so here I am to give it a try. Thanks in advance for any help!

I am totally stuck on this one. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Anyone have any ideas?

Background:
2005 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD
Original battery in the car. No aftermarket equip. in the car aside from daytime running lights added 3 years ago. No recent work done aside from routine maintenance (oil, filters).

Had the car in the garage for approximately 10 days untouched. Try to start it, nothing. Completely dead, like no battery in the car at all. Working normally before this point. Figure, that's strange, I know the battery was getting old, but never seen a battery go from not even seeming a little weak to this dead. But decide to replace battery anyway due to age. Install brand new battery. Start the car, beautiful, seems good as new. Have it running for a few minutes, shut it off. Don't use the car. Three days later, go to start the car. Just as dead as the old one was. I made sure nothing was left on when I shut the car off (headlights, interior lights, anything).

Now I'm convinced something is draining the battery with the key out of the ignition. Need to charge battery to start testing for what's drawing power. Disconnect and put on my charger (small charger, use it to charge & maintain my motorcycle battery, but pretty certain nothing wrong with it as I've recently used it with no negative effects). Once battery fully charged, connect to car, start again, run for a few minutes, seems fine. Shut it off and disconnect so it doesn't drain the battery until I have time to test. Next day, while connecting battery, looks like it's sitting in a little "water" in the battery tray. Connect and back it out of garage into driveway with better light so I can examine and with engine running, look under hood. It's spitting battery acid from under sealed caps. All that "water" is battery acid. Shut off, pull battery out, pour baking soda all over to neutralize acid and once I don't get any more fizzing anywhere, wash it all out. Take defective battery back and exchange for a new one.

Now here's where it gets really confusing. Drop the new battery in (which was tested and charged at the store) and start the car. Car starts fine, but here's the problems:
- No dashboard: no backlight, no digital odometer, tach doesn't register anything, same for fuel gauge, voltmeter, oil pressure gauge, etc.
- Few lights that DO come on are brake, 4WD, battery icon, and I think that was it (might have been one more)
- Things I quickly checked that ARE working: headlights, turn signals, radio, interior lights and some others.
I figure let me drive this to a shop quickly before something else wonky occurs. Put it in drive, start to pull forward with transmission, but depress gas pedal, doesn't register at all. I pull it back into the garage and shut it down. Disconnect battery again as if something is killing batteries, don't want to lose another one. And here I am...

Questions:
- Anyone have any idea WTF is wrong??
- What is the likelyhood my car caused the first new battery to start spitting battery acid, or do you believe I just got a faulty battery?
- I believe the 05 Pathfinder is drive-by-wire, which makes me think computer problem?
- What's the likelyhood battery acid destroyed a wire connection somewhere compounding the problem vs. this being the same problem from the beginning? (I could not see any battery acid damage and the battery is front right of the engine compartment, not near any computers/wires/fuses I could easy see beyond things like headlight, etc.)
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2011, 10:37 AM
dryart's Avatar
dryart dryart is offline
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2005 Pathfinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestForKnowledge View Post
Hi all,

Questions:
- Anyone have any idea WTF is wrong??
- What is the likelyhood my car caused the first new battery to start spitting battery acid, or do you believe I just got a faulty battery?
new battery overfilled?
new battery cracked or broken?
charging system overcharging? (did you check the charging system output after you installed the new battery?)
if it is overcharging, fuses may have failed (inop dash, throttle, etc)
a shorted alternator can cause rapid battery discharge and overcharging
even if it could be driven, more damage may result from driving it
(or it may stall out and cause a dangerous situation.......)
Recommendations:
charge & test battery
replace any failed fuses
check charging system output and all electrical related functions (meters, lights, horn, throttle, shifting, etc)
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2011, 05:37 AM
QuestForKnowledge QuestForKnowledge is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Default Follow-up: And the plot thickens

Thanks dryart! So here's the latest. Two days ago where I left it was I had dropped the second new battery into the car, had it running for about 3 or 4 minutes, realized my gas pedal didn't register, rolled it into the garage, shut it off and disconnected the battery right away so it didn't kill this one too if it had a small draw somewhere. Went out last night to start pulling fuses looking for a draw and right away smelled battery acid. The second battery was now also leaking battery acid!! I only had it connected to the car for about 5 minutes, and running for 3 or 4 of them. Did not put it on a charger, did not leave it connected, and it wasn't leaking immediately after I had shut the car off and disconnected it.

So now I'm thinking alternator is overcharging, because as far as I can tell, that's the only thing that could have killed yet another battery in such a short amount of time. Does this make sense? Would you agree? I replaced, yet again, the battery, but I'm not putting this one anywhere near the damn thing until I think the problem is resolved.

My new plan of attack is going to be to try and remove the alternator and have it tested. Hopefully it's an overachieving alternator that did not fry other things, simply popped some fuses.

Few questions again:
- Does this sound like the correct diagnosis based on what I've observed so far? (I am not willing to hook-up the battery to the car to perform some more tests as I can't afford to lose another one and don't have a junk battery lying around.)
- If it was the alternator surging, is it likely that I've fried any computers or other electronics, or will fuses typically have gone first and prevented this?
- I'm assuming any auto parts store will test the alternator for me if I pull it out of the car and bring it in?
- And the bonus question: looking under the hood, seems like the aternator is going to be a bear to get to. As I haven't had to do any real work on this vehicle yet, I'm thinking about signing-up for AllData instead of buying a service manual. Anyone have experience with them?
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  #4  
Old 09-08-2011, 06:40 AM
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dryart dryart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestForKnowledge View Post
So now I'm thinking alternator is overcharging, because as far as I can tell, that's the only thing that could have killed yet another battery in such a short amount of time. Does this make sense? Would you agree? I replaced, yet again, the battery, but I'm not putting this one anywhere near the damn thing until I think the problem is resolved.

My new plan of attack is going to be to try and remove the alternator and have it tested. Hopefully it's an overachieving alternator that did not fry other things, simply popped some fuses.

Few questions again:
- Does this sound like the correct diagnosis based on what I've observed so far? (I am not willing to hook-up the battery to the car to perform some more tests as I can't afford to lose another one and don't have a junk battery lying around.)
- If it was the alternator surging, is it likely that I've fried any computers or other electronics, or will fuses typically have gone first and prevented this?
- I'm assuming any auto parts store will test the alternator for me if I pull it out of the car and bring it in?
- And the bonus question: looking under the hood, seems like the aternator is going to be a bear to get to. As I haven't had to do any real work on this vehicle yet, I'm thinking about signing-up for AllData instead of buying a service manual. Anyone have experience with them?
these findings pretty much support my comments in my prior post:

new battery overfilled?
new battery cracked or broken?
charging system overcharging? (did you check the charging system output after you installed the new battery?)
if it is overcharging, fuses may have failed (inop dash, throttle, etc)
a shorted alternator can cause rapid battery discharge and overcharging
even if it could be driven, more damage may result from driving it
(or it may stall out and cause a dangerous situation.......)
Recommendations:
charge & test battery
replace any failed fuses
check charging system output and all electrical related functions (meters, lights, horn, throttle, shifting, etc)

to which i will add:

multiple defective batteries have been known to occur (not common, but possible)
fuses should protect your circuits
you haven't said if you have checked them or not
there are two fuse boxes and fuse-type links at the battery positive terminal
have you checked all of them?
the charging system output can be checked with the engine running for a very short period
i would protect from further acid spillage with a heavy plastic tarp, wear skin & eye protection, and hook a DC voltmeter across the battery terminals
i would not trust an auto parts store to check the alternator
the regulator is probably part of the alternator and the whole assembly is probably more accurately checked under a working load
the throttle may be a separate issue
i have seen several times in the forum(s) that throttles have failed without any other issues present
in your case, maybe a coincidence, maybe a result
checking the fuses may shed some light on all of this............
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2011, 06:25 AM
AngryPath
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Default Electrical

Same issue, exact same warning lights. "Coincidentally" this all happens a week after I had the transmission and radiator repaired. There is a ECM recall that i'm having done after a day of getting the run-around from the svc. manager. We'll see.

2006 Nissan Pathfinder ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING Recall Report

http://www.nissanassist.com/web/ECMR...ex.php?menu=40

Also I might add. The battery before the tranny/radiator rape was only a month old. Once this electrical issue began, I had that battery replaced.

Last edited by AngryPath; 09-10-2011 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Additional text.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2011, 06:36 AM
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dryart dryart is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestForKnowledge View Post
Hi all,

I just joined today and this is my first post. Someone suggested this forum to me and indicated they've had great success on it in the past, so here I am to give it a try. Thanks in advance for any help!

I am totally stuck on this one. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Anyone have any ideas?
have you found the source of your problem?
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2011, 07:01 PM
QuestForKnowledge QuestForKnowledge is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8
Default

Thanks AngryPath, I'll check the color of mine under the hood and see if it is included in the recall. So you are still having the issue or did the ECM swap fix it?

Sorry dryart, no update yet. This thing has been a royal pain for me to work on. Wasting hours trying to figure out how to take it apart. The service manual is quite vague and this is my first time doing any real work to this thing. Not happy. Thought I was finally going to get the alternator out tonight, but just gave up for the night. Pulled the 3 bolts but it still won't move.

I will definitely update here once I make any real progress.

Last edited by QuestForKnowledge; 09-12-2011 at 07:07 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2011, 07:21 PM
dryart's Avatar
dryart dryart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestForKnowledge View Post
Thanks AngryPath, I'll check the color of mine under the hood and see if it is included in the recall. So you are still having the issue or did the ECM swap fix it?

Sorry dryart, no update yet. This thing has been a royal pain for me to work on. Wasting hours trying to figure out how to take it apart. The service manual is quite vague and this is my first time doing any real work to this thing. Not happy. Thought I was finally going to get the alternator out tonight, but just gave up for the night. Pulled the 3 bolts but it still won't move.

I will definitely update here once I make any real progress.
why not test the alternator (charging output) while "in place"?
it's the most accurate way to test it, and sure would beat the heck out of removing & re-installing it in the event there's nothing wrong with it.
BTW: what service manual are you using?
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2011, 07:34 PM
QuestForKnowledge QuestForKnowledge is offline
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I am planning on taking it to an auto parts shop to test. I need to do much of this disassembly anyway, as I've been dealing with the 'squeak' issue as well and my auto-tensioner is the part # listed as the one that should be replaced. And, I do not want to damage another battery, therefore want to fix whatever is killing them first. I was able to replace the past two new batteries as defective, but I'm sure I won't be able to do that again, and the last one was only in the car and running for a few minutes. Besides, at this point, it's basically out. I'm stuck on the last step of actually pulling it out of the car.

I'm using two. I signed-up for AllData, but also using the service manual from this site.
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:27 PM
QuestForKnowledge QuestForKnowledge is offline
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Default Problem (hopefully) Resolved!

So I FINALLY have an update (didn't have time to really work on this until recently). Turns out, it was in fact a very over zealous alternator. Finally got it out of the truck, brought it to Ararat Automotive, he tested it and found it charging over 18V, he re-build it, and I got it back in (changed the drive belt and auto-tensioner while I was at it). Started it up and everything was working normal again. Tested the voltage at the battery standing (12.4) and running (13.2). I had the new battery sitting a while in addition to however long it was sitting at the auto parts store, so probably not fully charged. I'd expect the alternator to be charging a bit higher than that, but assuming a not fully charged battery had something to do with me only reading 13.2 initially. Load tested and the regulator seems to be doing it's job. Pull greater load, voltage starts to drop, but instantly back to 13.2. I'm going to check again every couple of days to ensure all remains working well and hope to see the voltage charging up around 14 running as well.

Also pulled a lot of fuses and every one seemed fine (did not check all yet). But the dash and throttle all appear normal now. I'm thinking the vehicle might have an internal circuit breaker that popped when it was hit w/too much voltage, and reset itself. I can't say this for a fact, but that's what I'm guessing happened, why it all went out on me and now is back w/o me doing anything else.

Again, just wanted to say thanks for the advice along the way and give an update now that I have one as well (a good one, too). :-)
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