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Forums > > 2001 maxima, can anti theft stop crank or only start? bypassed neutral safety relay still no crank unless jump
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  #1  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:14 PM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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Default 2001 maxima, can anti theft stop crank or only start? bypassed neutral safety relay still no crank unless jump

Hello,

New to this forum, signed up because i have been racking my brain with this issue and cannot find a solution. I have been a heavy duty mechanic for 10 years but not an expert with automotive.

my problem:

replaced the starter, and it worked for 2 months. one day after work went to start it and the starter stayed engaged after releasing ignition switch. i shut down car and now ignition will not put starter into a crank position.

what i have tested.

-checked all fuses

-jumping power from the battery to the trigger wire on starter with key in on position starts car, car operates great, electronically no other issues, no check engine light.

-jumped inhibit relay (neutral / park safety relay) pins 6 - 7 still no crank.

-removed ignition switch, replaced with 3 others (used) $7 a piece (thinking one should work.. cant all be faulty.) tried turning installed with key, and with screw driver. all operate the same when in start position dash goes blank and clicking is heard on RH side of car.1 click per 1 start position turn (did this with pins 6-7 jumped and without jumped.

- removed ignition switch harness jumped power from green wire (supply) to start signal wire and starter engages and cranks.

-tried all tests with battery charger on battery, and off battery, alternator is charging car battery sufficiently as well. I downloaded the schematic and tested continuity throughout the whole system from trigger wire off of switch to starter through 6-7 pin for neutral / park safety switch.

-the security light is flashing and horns going off, i removed horn fuse.

Wondering can security system stop the engine from cranking or just from actually starting?

any additional info on what relays could cause this issue, or where to check next would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Hope i can figure this one out and it can help the next person who has this problem. I have searched all the forums i could on this topic and did not find a situation such as mine.
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2017, 11:32 AM
OilCanObserver OilCanObserver is offline
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attached are pages from the general information (GI) section of the factory service manual. if you can't turn off the nissan anti-theft system (NATS) following the recommended procedure (also try your other key), you might have to bring the car to the dealer for reprogramming of the keys or look for locksmith with the capability of reprogramming nissan keys.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Nissan Anti-Theft.pdf (70.7 KB, 3 views)
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2017, 02:01 AM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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thank you for the reply, much appreciated.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2017, 11:03 PM
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1. If anti-thief has failed it just cranks but no start. Security light also stays on while cranking. It is supposed to go off when cranking.
2. According to you, you jump inhibitor relay and no power. Could that be the issue. If Inhibitor Switch it would still cranks but no start. But I would not rule out inhibitor switch/pnp switch. I also don't rule out a faulty starter, faulty ig switch. Other possibilities are ECM relay and starter relay. Not sure you've tested those.

Scan ECM even if MIL is not on. Before doing anything, disconnect negative battery cable for 20 - 30 minutes. Reconnect cable and try a re-start and take Note if security light stays on or off while cranking.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:25 PM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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thanks benny, so i have jumped starter from ignition signal to batter, and car starts (safely can assume starter works) i have jumped ignition switch wires (starter starts) can assume my jumper from 6-7 inhibit is working ? next i will test without inhibit in and see if it goes through.

I have changed ignition switch 3 times and tried with key on and doing manually with all.. nothing. i thought unlikely three used ignitions would be nfg. but possible :( new is $200 cause parts are dumb, ive been getting old ones from pick n pull for $10

thanks i figured security should not cause a no crank situation. i will post again if i find anything after i do a few more tests.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:58 AM
OilCanObserver OilCanObserver is offline
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i suspect the old ignition switch is bad (when the starter got stuck). should i say half-way bad , the ON position is still good but not the Start position. try this, re-install it but DISCONNECT terminal no. 5. with the key in the on position (shift lever should be on Park or Neutral), get a jumper from battery plus (+) (or terminal no.1 of the ig switch) & connect it to the disconnected wire from the no. 5 of the ig switch. the starter should crank (or run if the starter is not defective). the engine may or may not run. in case the key is not recognized by the immobilizer , try the recommended emergency start procedure as described in the document previously attached.

if you like just use a 12v, 20A momentary contact push button something similar to https://www.amazon.com/Ulincos-Momen...mentary+switch
a higher ampere (A) rating of the switch is ideal (may last longer).
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:23 PM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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Default installed push button switch

hey so i went to install the push button switch stealing power from the green #5 wire on ignition switch and jumping it to the red/black wire. when the key is in the off position and i press switch engine cranks. when the key is turned to the on position i have no power on the green wire. From what i can understand from the schematics green wire should have constant power at all positions of ignition switch.. confused what is happening here. is there anything the controls the green power wire? why would turning ignition to on position cut off power to green wire? unless its shorting somewhere but you think it would blow a fuse.. ugh. tried 3 different ignition switches. still does the same thing. im thinking it must something to do with power supply.

thanks or your input.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:43 PM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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so i followed up with some tests, found that green wire (#1) actually still has constant power when ignition switch is turned to on position. i have inhibit jumped but when i turn ignition switch on and press my installed push button nothing happens, turn ignition off and engine can crank. something in crank circuit (on #5 wire black and red) is preventing the starter from engaging when key is in on position. any ideas?
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:53 PM
OilCanObserver OilCanObserver is offline
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the immobilizer (NATS) should not prevent the starter from cranking (assuming the park-neutral position switch, park-neutral position relay, ignition switch & starter are good). just follow recommended emergency start procedure (previously attached) if engine won't stay running.

suggest you replace the ignition switch (the electrical part only,-not the cylinder lock) if you can turn the key & will return to ON when released from start position . refer to the harness E93 CONNECTOR diagram shown at the bottom of each page with wiring diagram (WIRING FOR THE IGNITION SWITCH). also pay close attention to the color of the wires (BR=BROWN ; B/R = BLACK WITH RED STRIPE). i suspect the ignition switch is improperly wired or totally defective. note GREEN wire should always be ON (regardless of the switch position) & connected to TERMINAL #1 of the IGNITION SWITCH.

in the ignition switch, there are 2 B/R wires, one is to terminal #3 & the other is to terminal #5. these wires could have inter-changed. disconnect both. if you apply battery + (B+) to one, if the radio can be turned on, & dash lights will light this should be wired to #3 terminal.

does the starter crank as soon as you connect the battery (both + & -)? if so, i suspect the starter solenoid is defective. at first, when you mentioned in your first post the starter remained engaged, i suspected that terminals #1 & #5 (of the ignition switch) remained connected (fused) even after you released the switch. hence i suggested that you DISCONNECT the B/R (black with red stripe) from #5 of the ignition switch, & connect (temporarily) the disconnected wire (B/R) to battery + to trigger the starter. note terminals #5 & #6 are internally connected (see attached EL-POWER-07).


to test the park-neutral position (PNP) switch: use test light or volt meter. when using test light, shift lever on
park or neutral, unplug the PNP relay, one end of the test light to B+ & the other to terminal #2 of the PNP relay
SOCKET. light bulb should turn ON. refer to E34 diagram at the bottom of Starting System (SC-start-02) page. if using
voltmeter, + lead of voltmeter to B+ & negative lead of voltmeter to terminal #2 of the PNP relay SOCKET. voltmeter
should read battery voltage. to avoid damage to socket terminals, use jumper wires with spade terminations.

also check the PNP RELAY. suggest you use jumper wires with proper terminations to connect the relay to prevent damage to socket terminals.

before replacing the ignition switch, use voltmeter to check voltage presence to terminals to each ignition switch position (voltmeter negative to ground):
accessory: + lead to terminal 2 = 12v
on: + lead to terminals #2, #3, & # 4 = 12v or battery voltage
start: + lead to terminals #5 & #6 = 12v or battery voltage (this is in addition to ON position)
note: terminals #5 & #6 should only have power on the start position (terminal #6 is for M/T)

you can still use the push button if you want, only if accessory & on positions are good & no voltage to both #5 & #6 when switch is at start position. assuming both terminals #5 & #6 are still in tact internally, wire push button to terminal #1 (green wire)) & the other to terminal of the push button to either #5 or #6. if starter cranks to "ON" POSITION, even without pushing the push button, disconnect wire from terminal #5 then connect to the push button. with the shift lever to either park or neutral & switch to on position, pushing the button should crank the starter. if no crank, assume the PNP RELAY is defective.

i DO NOT recommend putting jumper across terminals #6 & #7 of the PNP relay. the car could jump if the shift lever is not at Park or Neutral position. for testing purposes only, you can apply battery + to terminal #7 of the park neutral relay, starter should crank. leaving the jumper across #6 & #7 will defeat the safety feature. replace if found defective.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beck-Arnley....c100507.m3226
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ignition Switch Wiring.pdf (259.2 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by OilCanObserver; 01-11-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2018, 04:43 PM
zachmobro zachmobro is offline
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Default still not sure what problem is

so, with further testing,

i have a push button installed from green #5 and red/black wire. when ignition is off and i press switch it cranks but does not start as ignition switch is still in off position.

as soon as i turn ignition switch in on position and jump wires, it will not crank.

any ideas as to what could be stopping the engine from cranking with ignition on?

thanks in advance for all the help :D
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