2001 sentra xe not starting

[galleyne]

Greetings!
I have a 2001 Sentra Xe that is not starting although the engine is turning over quite well. I suspected the fuel pump. I checked the fuse for the fuel pump(15A) and it was good. I checked pin 1 on the fuel pump connector and there was not voltage. I checked on the relay and realized that the relay was not working. According to the manual if the cam shaft sensor is defective the ecm will not send a voltage to operate the relay. I cheated the ecm by shorting the relay contacts and also bypasing the ECM voltage. The relay operated and I saw juice on pin 1 of the pump. I then disconnected the fuel line at the rail and observed that the fuel pump was working since I collected some fuel in a jar. Replace the fuel line and tried starting but no luck. Suspect that I was getting no Spark Removed a spark plug and checked for a spark. no spark. A friend brought his code reader. codes read P0455, p0464, p1448. WE erase the code and read again the only code read is now p0505 (Idle control control system malfunction. I disconnected the negative terminal on the battery to reset the ecm and read the codes again Again p0505 only code observed. I disconnected the connector on the idle control valve. Still not starting. i am beginning to suspect the ecm since i think that if the camshaft sensor is defective that I would get a code. I took off the oil cap and had a look at the camshaft turning which tells me that the timing chain is turning. Has any one seen this problem before where both the fuel pump is not working and there is no spark. Note that this car does not have a distributor instead it get a voltage from the ecm which drives a transistor amplifier which is in the sparkplug casing. Any help would be appreciated.

Geoffrey

[streamcast]

Had some issues where the ecm caused the no spark and fuel issue. Check the signal side of the coil and see if the ecm is ground ing the coils.

[mpe235]

Pull all 4 coils and put plugs in them. Crank the engine and check to see if only #4 fires while cranking. If it does then your timing chain has jumped.

[galleyne]

Hello guys, thanks very much for your recommendations. I got home late tonight so I was unable to have a go. Will try tomorrow evening. If either of the recommendations do not solve the problem I will have the car pushed into my garage and start checking the spark plug circuit and the camshaft sensor circuit at the ecm. I printed out their troubleshooting sections from the manual. I will let you guys know how I make out one way or the other.
Again thanks very much your help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Geoffrey,

I printed out the their troubleshooting sections from the manual. It is getting pretty cold plus the car is in the street

[galleyne]

Greetings All,
MPE235 I forgot to ask how the coils/sparks plugs are numbered going from left to right when I am standing in directly in front of the car and looking at the engine. The coil that I checked was the last one on the right. From what I gather you want me to check all the spark plugs outside of the cyclinders simultaneously?

Geoffrey

[JudoJohn]

number 4 is at the rear of the engine. This would be the one closest to the driver's side of the car.

[galleyne]

Greetings JudoJoh,
Thanks for your help. However, I believe that you are mixing up the models. This Sentra is a 4 cyclinder and all the spark plugs are in the front of the engine just behind the radiator.

Geoffrey

[galleyne]

Hello MPE235 I did as you recommended. None of the sparks plugs fired. I guess as a result it is safe to conclude that the timing/timing chain is ok. Thats about all I could do this afternoon. Will aim to have the car pushed into the garage probably Thursday afternoon so that I can work on it. I guess the next step would be to check the ignition circuit from the input to the ecm all the way to the spark plugs. do you have any more suggestions relating to any sensors that I should be checking?

Geoffrey

[JudoJohn]

check out the crank and cam position sensors. one or both out will cause a no-start issue. Did you read any codes?

[JudoJohn]

P1448
EVAP Canister Vent Control Valve (Open)

check the FSM to see what it says.

[JudoJohn]

Originally Posted by galleyne

Greetings JudoJoh,
Thanks for your help. However, I believe that you are mixing up the models. This Sentra is a 4 cyclinder and all the spark plugs are in the front of the engine just behind the radiator.

Geoffrey

Yes, but the engine sets sideways or transversely. Therefore the front of the engine is near the right side of the car (passenger side), and the rear of the engine is where it bolts to the transaxle, which is also the driver's side of the car.

I have the exact same model. Go to the photo gallery and you will see my photos of my engine.

[galleyne]

Hello JudoJohn,
I learnt something from you. Thanks. I never knew that was the configuration for front wheel drive cars. always thought the rear was before the firewall and the front was behind the radiator. Should I not get a code for either the cam shaft sensor and/or the cranshaft sensor if they are faulty/malfunctioning? I never saw a code for either before or after we erased the codes. The only code I am now getting is P0505 which is "Idle control control system malfunction"

Geoffrey

[JudoJohn]

I'm not sure that p505 should keep it from starting? maybe mpe knows.

[streamcast]

If you are getting P0505 without the vehicle running then you have a problem. P0505 is an ISC sode, which usually requires the engine to be running for the ECM to collect data to identify an idle problem. Therefore I would check the power supply to the Idle speed control motor and make sure the signal is present to and from the ECM. The codes that you have had and the non operating systems would make one think ECM as the ECM supplies a ground / small voltages to operate the mentioned systems. In otherwords no switching ground from ECM the vehivle will not start. Make sure the power supply and ground is at the ECM relay as well. You may very well have a broken wire in the main harness they were known for that as well.

[mpe235]

Originally Posted by galleyne

Hello MPE235 I did as you recommended. None of the sparks plugs fired. I guess as a result it is safe to conclude that the timing/timing chain is ok. Thats about all I could do this afternoon. Will aim to have the car pushed into the garage probably Thursday afternoon so that I can work on it. I guess the next step would be to check the ignition circuit from the input to the ecm all the way to the spark plugs. do you have any more suggestions relating to any sensors that I should be checking?

Geoffrey

I'm thinking ECM issue. Remove the ecm housing from the firewall and open the plastic case. Check to see if the case is lined with foam.

[galleyne]

Greetings All!
Thanks for your assistance. I have decided to stay home this morning since the weather is good and have a go at this problem. I will report back on my findings hopefully I will have some good news.

Geoffrey

[galleyne]

Greetings I had a go at the car yesterday for a few hours. I pretty much worked on EC-548 checking the ECM Relay circuit. I removed the connector from the ECM. I operated the relay by grounding pin 2 at the ECM harness and checking for continuity between pins 3 and 5, and 6 and 7 on the relay. On page EC-548 it shows pin 2 of the relay connecting to pin 31 on the ECM connector/harness. I found it to be connected to pin 21 as per the drawing of the connector. The pin 31 is shown as the second pin on the row that is indented. When I checked on that pin I had no continuity with pin 2 on the relay. So it appears to be an error on the drawing. MPE can you comment on that. I took pictures of the relay and the ecm and the ecm connector. I could not locate the condenser can someone tell me where that is? In the manual you are asked to take measurements with the connector on the ECM. That will be my next step. There was no foam in the housing of the ECM have a loot at the photos. I believe that the ECM realy is ok. I am beginning to suspect the camshaft sensor although no way in the manual does it say that if the camshaft sensor is defective that the ecm relay is not energized. However, I take the view that if the ECM cuts off the power to the fuel pump relay if the Camshaft sensor is defective that it will also prevent the ECM relay from operating since that is what provides the voltage for the spark plugs. Why would the fuel pump be turned off and the engine allowed to generate sparks? Does not seem logical hence my hunch. Tonight I removed the Cranshaft sensor and measured the resistance. Ther are 3 terminals between the two end terminals I got an open circuit (infinite resistance), between an end terminal and the centre 1.2 Kohms and between centre and the other end terminal and open circuit. That does not tell me much unless I buy a new camshaft sensor and compare the readings? I think the camshaft sensor picsk up a voltage due to a changing magnetic field. I guess the proper way to check it would be to turn the engine and look with an oscilloscope on the corresponding pins in the ECM harness. The dealer quoted ame a price of over $40 feach or the cranshaft sensor and the camshaft sensor, while the ecm is around $900. I will try to get a camshaft sensor from a parts store where I am sure it is much cheaper. I will give this a shot and hopefully that will solve the problem. Before I do that, however, I will check for continuity between the Camshaft sensor harness and the ECM harness pin outs. Like I said I could not locate the condenser although from the picture in the manual it appears to be beside the ECM. The ECM realy is the Brown relay in the picture. the terminals are from the top on the right hand side going to the left pins 2, 7, and 6. While from the right hand side on the bottom going to the left pins 1, 5, and 3. MPE can you tell me what those red, green, and grey connectors in the ecm harness are for? Again any help will be greatly appreciated. I wil be posting the photos shortly.

Geoffrey

[streamcast]

Hey. If there was an issue with the ecm relay chances are you would have no communiction with ecm and when you turn the key ahead to the on position the Service engine soon light will not illuminate. Pg 168 in the Esm I think give you the complete diagram for the power supply for the ecm. I hope this helps I will respond more later.

[galleyne]

Hello Guys,
i have been trying to upload the photos I took to the gallery but I have only been able to upload 1. I keep getting "upload failed". I think it because my photos are too big. Is there a way I can reduce the size of each photo so that I can upload them? I guess the alternative would be to trying zipping them and them uploading.

Geoffrey

[galleyne]

Greetings All!
After much frustration I was able to upload ALL the photos. Please have a look. I bought a camshaft sensor and compared (resistance readings) with the one I took out of the engine. The both gave approximately the same readings. An educated guess would tell me that the Camshaft sensor is good. I will check the camshaft sensor. I will try and take pictures any parts and their locations and post them in the gallery so that others can use them.
I think I am going to go back and start from scratch and have a look at the evaporator canister codes(P0455, P1448, and P0440) which I had before this problem. Wtih those codes sometimes the car would stall immediately after it started. Once you gave a bit of gas after starting the car would not stall. This was an intermittent problem which I never investigated besides readings the codes. If I look at the codes which I read after this problem I got P01448, P0455, P0464, P0180, and P0505.
If I compare the codes before and after you can see that the only news codes are P0505 and P0464. I also did not see P0440. If I assume that P0440 can be intermittent under current driving conditions I can ignore it for the moment. I can also ignore P0180 since it has to do with the fuel temperature sensor since I do not believe that since the fuel pump is not working that the sensor will not record a change in temperature. That leaves P0505. Will check out this sensor and report back. In the meantime if any of you can provide more help it would be greatly appreciated.

Geoffrey