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  #46  
Old 11-08-2010, 04:40 PM
galleyne galleyne is offline
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2001 Sentra
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 26
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Greetings Guys,
Apologies for not giving an update last night but I had a very important event to watch on TV. Continuting from where I left off. After I responded and asked for help in determining the location of the condenser I decided that I did not want to wait until the morning to get a response from you guys since I was convince that the condenser was the problem. Luckily I stumbled upon EC1234 which provides, in my opinion a better a better drawing and location of the condenser I was able to locate it. I removed it and checked the resistance across the pins. I measured an open circuit. It was pretty late so I decided I would tackle the problem the next day (sunday). Yesterday I turned the ignition on and checked ;pin 1 of the condenser I did not get any voltage. I also checked between the coil harnesses and pin1 of the condenser for continuity. Everything was good. I started wondering if contacts 6 and 7 of the ecm relay were somehow shorting the voltage to ground. I checked all contacts 6 and 7 to ground also the sparkplug harnesses and the condenser harnesses to ground but I could not find a short. I decided that I had to get the ecm relay out if I was going to get to the bottom of the problem. After much effort I was finally able to get the relay out. I applied 12 voltage and ground across the realy coil(pins 1 and 2) the relay operated and I had continuity between contacts 3 and 5 and 6 and 7. I removed both fuses 36 and 34 from the fuse link box and shorted contacts 1 an2, 3 and 5, and 6 and 7 of the relay connector, replaced both fuses, and turned the ignition on checked for battery voltage at the condenser harness and the sparkplug harnesses. again no voltage was observed. I checked both sides of fuse 34(15A) and saw battery voltage. I removed this fuse and checked for continuity between the relay side of the fuse pin 6 on the relay harness. I had no continuity. I came to the conclusion that the red/black wire from the 15A fuse to pin6 in the realy harness is broken. To prove my theory I sent batter into one of the sparkplug connectors and checked for voltage at the other connectors, the condenser harness pin 7 and 6 of the relay harness, which I had jumpered, and the relay side of the 15A fuse. I saw voltage at every location except the relay side of the 15A fuse. I Decided to try and locate connector F47 which is the connector between the 15A fuse and the pin 6 of the relay harness. I suspect that it is one of the connectors of which the mass airflow sensor connector is one the other 4 are by the side of the shock tower on the driver side. Is that correct? and if so which one is it going from the top to the bottom. I think the top one has only two wires? It seemed like a big job to get at the connector so I decided that an easier fix would be to remove the fuselink box find the wire from the 15A fuse. cut it and run a new wire to pin 6 of the relay harness. What do you think? I am going on the assumption, based on the wiring diagram that that that wire (Red/Black) ONLY goes from the the 15A fuse to pin 6 of the relay connector? I find this to be a strange problem since I cannot understand how I can see the voltage at pin 6 of the relay connector before the relay operates and then the voltage goes to zero when the realy operates with no load on the relay contacts (condenser connectors and all sparkplug connectors off). I can understand the wire breaking down if current is being drawn but in this case there is no load so no current is being drawn. I was hoping to have a crack at it this afternoon but it is raining "cats and dogs" so I will have a go at it tomorrow evening (night) if I can get home before it is not too late. One of the things I did early in the troubleshooting(last week) was to remove the two ground lugs by the intake manifold clean them, put them back and sprayed a bit of oil on them. If any of you can help me to locate connector F47 I might be able to run this new cable quickly since I would just have to check on either side of F47 to see where the discontinuity is, then splice the new cable to that side and connect the other end to pin6 of the realy connector without having to remove all that stuff (battery, fusebox etc.)

Geoffrey
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2010, 08:15 PM
galleyne galleyne is offline
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2001 Sentra
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 26
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Greetings,
I had a go at the car tonight. I ran a new wire from the 15A fuse in the fuse box to the ecm relay pin 6. I checked each spark plug connector and the condenser connector and measured battery voltage. Note that I had jumpered the pins on the ecm relay. I removed the jumpers re-installed the ecm relay, the condenser and connected the sparkplug connectors to the sparkplugs but had the plugs outside of the head. I turned the ignition on and realized that the check engine light did not come on. The ecm relay did not operat also. I checked the 30A fuse for the check engine light and pin 22 of the ecm. I had battery on the fuse and also pin 22. Naturally, I was disappointed since the ecm had worked Sundad afternoon. I surmised that the ECM probably does not like the cold weather since I had it in the garage last week and re-installed it on sunday. Sunday was not too cold. However I never took it out of the car. I removed it tonight and brought it into the house which is nice and warm. Tomorrrow afternoon I will reinstall it and see if it works. If it works I will check to see if the spark plugs are firing. If they are I will re-install them and see if the car starts. If the car starts, I may have to change the oil if it does not start since the oil is contaminated with gasoline. If It start I will leave the ecm connected and try it the next day and see what happens. If it does not start I will give the ecm a few taps/strikes with a rubber mallet incase some componet (probaly a relay) is sticking. so it would appears that I have/had 2 problems; a connection problem and an intermittent ECM. I am still trying to come up with a suitable explanation as to why I was seeing voltage on pin 6 of the ecm relay before the relay operated, and why it disappeared when the relay operated. I will let you all know how the testing went.

Geoffrey
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2010, 01:28 AM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CANADA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,214
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Pin 6 is fused power directly from the battery. The only way to properly check a circuit for and open or high resistance is a voltage drop test. That is where you disconnect the circuit put one end to ground and the other to power with a load, and measure across the circuit. By what you have describe is that the wiring is not an issue it is the ECM directly. I have seen this red/black wire break in the area where it goes into the fender by the battery and the ECM fail. I have also had a vehicle with the same problem and changed coild and the vehicle started but would not restart and be the ECM, but maynot be your incident.
Keep me posted.
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2010, 04:37 PM
galleyne galleyne is offline
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2001 Sentra
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 26
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Greetings,
I connected back the ecm this afternoon and turn the ignition. The check engine linght did not come on. I am just curious but we have a alarm installed in the car. The alarm is connected to the horn. If you do not push the rear window defrost when you turn the ignition on the engine will not turn over and the horn will song. Any idea if this could have something to do with this problem? I will try to check all the various voltages and grounds that are connected to the ecm with the ignition off and then on. The fact that the the check engine light worked on the weekend could be due to another bad connection. I also wonder if the red/black wire I cut at the fuse link box and connected to pin 7 of the ecm realy is connected to other circuits which I might not have recognized in the various circuit schematics. I might reconnect battery to the wire I cut. I will meep the guys posted on my progress or lack thereof.

Geoffrey
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  #50  
Old 11-11-2010, 04:00 AM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
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Location: CANADA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,214
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Do not know about the alarm system or anti theft, but disconnect the system and try it. Do a voltage drop on the red black wire and white /blue wire and see if there is a break in the wire. The red and black wire powers the ecm relay. Unless the harness is melted or connector E9 is shorted then do this this will illiminate the power side of the relay
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  #51  
Old 11-11-2010, 01:15 PM
wakayama
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OK, now I got service manual. I try to take out ECM relay harness, but it's very hard.

How can I take out?
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  #52  
Old 11-11-2010, 01:22 PM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakayama View Post
OK, now I got service manual. I try to take out ECM relay harness, but it's very hard.

How can I take out?
What is it you are trying to do at this time?
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  #53  
Old 11-11-2010, 01:30 PM
wakayama
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Your last advice.

" Go to the knowledge base section and download sentra manual section ec. Go to page ec pg 168 for non california model. Follow the pinouts on those to pages but check at the relay behind glove box. Make sure you have what you are supposed to have if you do not let us know what you do not have. Batt volts on 1, 3,6 and 5 of relay. Terminal 2 should have approx 1 volt and switch to batt volts. "

So I try to take out ECM harness, but I can't.
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  #54  
Old 11-11-2010, 01:49 PM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
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you do not have to remove the harness just disconnect the relay and the fuse in the fuse
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  #55  
Old 11-11-2010, 01:50 PM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
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Should be a tab theat you need a small screw driver flat or pick and push tab to slide the relay toward the firewall.
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  #56  
Old 11-11-2010, 02:04 PM
wakayama
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But if I don't remove harness, how can I take out relay or check voltage ? Service manual P172
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  #57  
Old 11-12-2010, 06:57 AM
wakayama
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I'm sorry. I did wrong way.


" Go to the knowledge base section and download sentra manual section ec. Go to page ec pg 168 for non california model. Follow the pinouts on those to pages but check at the relay behind glove box. Make sure you have what you are supposed to have if you do not let us know what you do not have. Batt volts on 1, 3,6 and 5 of relay. Terminal 2 should have approx 1 volt and switch to batt volts. "


** 1 and 6 OK, but 3 and 5, no voltage.

Now what do I need to do?

Thank you for help.
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  #58  
Old 11-12-2010, 03:16 PM
streamcast streamcast is offline
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1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
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Posts: 1,214
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Broken splice where 3 and 5 are. Same wire. Remove battery and strip harness to fuse block search for whitewith blue tracer wire you should have 1 white/blue wire go tinto a splice of two white/blue wire from fuse block
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  #59  
Old 11-14-2010, 07:11 AM
wakayama
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How can I find broken part of wire or I need to replace whole White/blue cable?

Wire from Battery, whole cable cover with Loom Tube. I need to take out those cover and look for broken part or inside car I need to check broken White/blue wire?

I see White/blue wire from ECM relay.
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  #60  
Old 11-14-2010, 07:17 AM
streamcast streamcast is offline
Master Enthusiast
1997 Altima
1995 Sentra
1995 Nissan sentra
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CANADA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakayama View Post
How can I find broken part of wire or I need to replace whole White/blue cable?

Wire from Battery, whole cable cover with Loom Tube. I need to take out those cover and look for broken part or inside car I need to check broken White/blue wire?

I see White/blue wire from ECM relay.
Remove the battery and holder, the harness coming from the fuse box nect to thebattery that goes behind the left headlamp and goes into the left inner fender, this is the section of harness needed to be stripped.
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