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AC clutch seems to engage too rough ('98 Frontier) Forums > > AC clutch seems to engage too rough ('98 Frontier) AC clutch seems to engage too rough ('98 Frontier)
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Frontier Nissan Frontier/HB/Truck Discussion Forum

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  #1  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:58 PM
ThomasE ThomasE is offline
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Default AC clutch seems to engage too rough ('98 Frontier)

I think my AC clutch has lost its clutch function. It engages too rough, causing the belt to momentarily slip.

I have tried tightening the belt a few times at various levels (from rather loose to very tight) and the belt still slips for ½” when the clutch engages (less with a very tight belt but still momentarily chirps). So I don’t think it’s a loose belt. More importantly, when the AC engages, apart from the short (1/2 second long) belt chirp I do feel a rather violent engagement. There is almost a hammer strike sound when the clutch solenoid engages and I also feel the momentary hesitation in the engine, even in 5th gear at highway speeds.

I have removed the belt and the compressor seems to be running freely, with what I think is the typical normal uneven resistance of a compressor (though I have no experience with other compressors to compare).

I have not taken apart the clutch, primarily because I did not know how to. I also did not want to risk having any refrigerant escape since I’ve never dealt with refrigerants before.

Otherwise the clutch seems to be disengaging properly. The compressor is not turning when the AC is off. Once engaged there are no funky sounds and the air coming out is cold. But every 45" or so when the clutch engages (especially at high RPM) there's a belt squeal.

I’ve read about AC clutches that go bad and start slipping. But have not found anything about them engaging too abruptly. Why would it grab?

Any ideas as to what it may be and how to fix it?
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2017, 04:53 AM
JRJoe JRJoe is offline
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Tom,

When it come's to AC Diagnosis, my advice is to take it to an AC Professional, with all the proper gauge's and experience.

I've had good luck with Nissan, Firestone, & Reputable AC Professional's that do New System Install's.
__________________
2013 SVV6 KC AT 2WD Frontier, '93 4Cyl, AT, KC Hardbody(20yrs Orig Owner-Sold 174K mi.)
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2017, 04:21 PM
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smj999smj smj999smj is offline
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I would start by checking the air gap in the A/C clutch with a feeler gauge and compare to the factory service manual spec's. The gap is adjustable using shims (small washers), but usually an excessive gap at this point would probably mean you have a lot of wear on the clutch. Adjusting the clutch would require removing it and removing/adding shims to get the specified air gap. If it does not a clutch, you have to move on to the next question: Should you just replace the clutch or get a reman. compressor assembly with the clutch installed? Sometimes the price is not that much different between the two, but the compressor replacement will obviously require dealing with the refrigerant and replacing the liquid tank (receiver/drier). If there is enough room, you may be able to R&R the clutch without removing the compressor. Maxsam is an American company that makes nothing but A/C clutches and sells on Ebay. I recently bought one for my 06 Pathfinder for around $115. I was able to "borrow" the tool that holds the clutch in place using Autozone's tool loaner program.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:57 PM
ThomasE ThomasE is offline
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Thanks for the advice.

I measured the gap and it is within spec. Also the gap is very constant as I rotate the compressor, so nothing is bent, and the pulley had absolutely no play in the bearing (not bad after 180k miles!).

I removed the center 10mm bolt by jamming a screwdriver against one of the clutch rivets (they look like rivets anyway) and the frame. It’s only a 10mm so it did not require that much torque to loosen.

But I cannot remove the clutch without what seems to be a special puller. I got hold of a shop manual and it shows a puller made of a steel plate with 3 screws to attach to the clutch and a center screw to push it out. Hard to find tool I imagine with 4 screws in exact location.

In any case, before I try to think of something to pull the clutch out with, I figured I should just try to wash the small gap between the clutch and the pulley with brake fluid. Or perhaps engine cleaner first and then brake fluid. Things look clean on the outside but perhaps some road grime has gotten in between and makes the clutch grab (that seems to be my main issue). The puzzling part is what could possibly make it grab too much? Too little friction I understand, this is the mode clutches typically fail. But too much grab I cannot imagine what it may be.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:30 AM
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Cusser Cusser is offline
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Just yesterday morning I replaced the high pressure line from compressor on my '98 Frontier (had a pinhole leak). I did spin the compressor (not its clutch) by hand, turned over with little resistance and no noise, if that information helps you. My compressor has 219K on it, factory unit, likely first time it was ever "opened up".

Anyway, my AC worked fine after evacuation/recharge, 100 mile trip in 116F Arizona heat. So I feel that the compressor only very slight resistance is normal, and is in line with compressors on my other vehicles.

Question: have you actually changed the AC belt recently? I would only use Nissan, Gates, or Gatorback belts.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2017, 01:30 PM
ThomasE ThomasE is offline
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Yes my compressor also spins without noise, I can feel some uneven resistance, presumably from the compressor piston. I regard that as normal.

I have changed belts a few times. I’ve gone through 3 sets of Nissan belts so far (and they too were slipping on the AC pulley when the clutch engaged). Last year I bought belts from Autozone, to test if there would be any difference in the AC belt slipping but unfortunately it was the same: Short ½” slip when clutch engages.

The Aurozone belts are ribbed and a little noisier. To me the Autozone belts seem thinner overall and more elastic. However I was not particularly happy with the Nissan belts either because although quieter in the beginning they seemed to have a tendency to squeak after about 50-60k miles.

For reference, the spec for the AC clutch disk to pulley air gap is 0.3-0.6mm. On my compressor it’s 0.5mm.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I washed the clutch disk to pulley gap with brake cleaner today. A small amount of grey stuff came out, slightly coloring the dripping cleaner, but no dirt particles that I saw.
I also made sure the belt was tightened to spec (10-12mm deflection on top when a 10kg force is applied).

So far it has not slipped, so perhaps the washing helped. I don’t think that I had a loose belt because, as I mentioned in the first post, I’ve had this AC belt issue for a long time and had tried many belt tension levels over the past 2-3 years, even with a belt tightened over spec, and the belt still momentarily slipped upon clutch engagement. Then everything seemed normal, just the clutch engagement made it slip momentarily.

So now I need to try the AC on a long hot trip before I can say more. I think that when you drive for a long time, or perhaps when the AC is on for a long time and the ambient temperature is also hot, the belts seem to slip more. Perhaps the belt gets warmer and expands so it gets looser and slips more?
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2017, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE View Post
However I was not particularly happy with the Nissan belts either because although quieter in the beginning they seemed to have a tendency to squeak after about 50-60k miles.
50-60K is a LONG belt life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE View Post
So far it has not slipped, so perhaps the washing helped. I don’t think that I had a loose belt because, as I mentioned in the first post, I’ve had this AC belt issue for a long time and had tried many belt tension levels over the past 2-3 years, even with a belt tightened over spec, and the belt still momentarily slipped upon clutch engagement. Then everything seemed normal, just the clutch engagement made it slip momentarily.

So now I need to try the AC on a long hot trip before I can say more. I think that when you drive for a long time, or perhaps when the AC is on for a long time and the ambient temperature is also hot, the belts seem to slip more. Perhaps the belt gets warmer and expands so it gets looser and slips more?
Sure, try out on a long trip. But to me it sounds like your complaint is minimal, and maybe not worth pursuing.

On my '98 Frontier, besides the high pressure line I replaced this week, the only AC-related stuff I've needed (219K) have been to replace the AC idler pulley and the belt, in 13 years with the truck.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:20 AM
ThomasE ThomasE is offline
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Thanks. You are right, the inconvenience is minor. But that violent compressor engagement does not seem right. More importantly, sounds as if some major forces are at work for that split second when the clutch engages and the belt slips and I'm afraid something more catastrophic may happen. If it were just the momentary belt slip and chirp then I could probably live with it and even if the belt breaks, so be it. Even if the compressor gets damaged still not that big of a deal. What more serious might happen? I don't know but that sound the compressor made as if hit with a hammer when the clutch engaged was not very comforting. Let's see. I can still hear he "clunk" when the clutch engages but sounds better and the belt has not slipped so far.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:13 PM
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I think your choices are:
1. Change the compressor & clutch now, new is $205 COMP DKV14C 1GR You should be able to get by without even replacing the drier if you do this while the system is still operational.
2. Live with it, and if strange noises happen while running the AC, switch it off and install a new compressor & clutch.

Takes 23 oz. R134a.
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  #10  
Old 06-25-2017, 04:44 AM
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smj999smj smj999smj is offline
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If you want to retain the warranty on a replacement compressor, they will want a receipt for a new receiver/drier and flushing solvent. Personally, if I'm going to spend the money on a new compressor, I'm also going to replace the receiver drier.
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2017, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smj999smj View Post
If you want to retain the warranty on a replacement compressor, they will want a receipt for a new receiver/drier and flushing solvent. Personally, if I'm going to spend the money on a new compressor, I'm also going to replace the receiver drier.
In Oct. 2014, the compressor seized up in my '88 Mazda truck (205K) going to work; it had worked perfectly the night before (yes, we use AC in October in Arizona). For that, I did replace the drier, backflushed the lines and condenser back to the compressor with solvent, added my mineral oil, and installed my brand-new compressor and R-12.

Aug. 2015, kept breaking the small AC belt on 2005 GMC Yukon (160K), seemed to be related to low compressor mount design and oil slugging. AC would work fine in the meantime, so I knew there was no orifice tube blockage. For that I did not replace the accumulator, just the compressor, and added an anti-slugging electronic. Fine so far.

I've read on AC Internet boards that some experts do NOT change out the drier/accumulator every time, just when the system has been open to the atmosphere for over a day or is empty of refrigerant, allowing air/moisture in. So depends why the system is being repaired.

Question: why do these R134a trucks have sight glasses in their driers (my 1998 does, haven't checked the 2004) ? Sight glasses aren't too useful for R134a, maybe it's just easier to keep stocking/making a backwards compatible part?
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2017, 04:36 AM
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I know newer receiver/driers can be used with both R-12 and R-134a whereas it was not recommended to use the original R-12 receiver/driers when converting to R-134a "back in the day." I believe it had to do more with the oil than the refrigerant, itself, and deterioration of the desiccant bag. Might have been easier at the time or more cost effective to use the driers with the sight glass and update the desiccant bag, but I'm just taking a guess.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2017, 06:11 AM
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Yeah, and it's pretty amazing how small that desiccant bag inside the drier really is, too !
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:52 PM
JRJoe JRJoe is offline
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Thomas,

From time to time Firestone has AC Special's. Last time I had an AC problem, Several Year's back with my '93 Hardbody, they were running a 40 $ Check and Recharge special. AC is a Priority for me; They Checked it out added a little bit of 134a, checked for leak's. No problem's afterward's. It was worth every penny of that 40 $'s.

Firestone is running a 10 $ AC check at the present:

Offer detail page in HTML | Firestone Complete Auto Care

Seem's to me to be a Fair Price. Might be a pressure problem, lubricant, etc., and might save you way more than 10 $'s later on. If they have to add coolant, lubricant, etc. It'll cost a little bit more. I've had good luck with Firestone in the Past.

On that '93 Hardbody,, the compressor since New alway's seemed to have a hard compressor kick on, and it was normal for the Belt to Chirp a little bit after sitting overnight. I alway's wondered about that,, but it was still cooling good at 20 year's when I got a '13 and sold the '93. The AC system on the '93 was an aftermarket Frigette System.

Good Luck however you choose to go.

Last edited by JRJoe; 06-26-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2017, 06:35 AM
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I'm wary of such low-priced specials. The real way to check for leaks is to pull out the refrigerant and weigh it, then to automatically add the correct amount. The way to check for performance is basically if the driver and passenger(s) are comfortable, and I wouldn't touch a system that was operating OK.

I've read about Frontier owners with automatic transmissions (even with V6 engines) say that switching on their AC is like "adding the brake". Is yours automatic? Mine are 4-cylinder, 5-speeds so I don't experience this.
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